tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post5061525983055625873..comments2024-03-17T19:34:10.920+05:30Comments on Suvro Chatterjee bemused: The MahabharataSuvro Chatterjeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-62296415139335741812016-11-01T10:29:50.803+05:302016-11-01T10:29:50.803+05:30Thank you very much, sir. I think really well-writ...Thank you very much, sir. I think really well-written literature is worth visiting time and again. I like how a lot of the side-stories and long-forgotten incidents come back to haunt the characters. I love the fact that most characters reveal themselves to be various shades of grey, and no one seems to be exempt from what is due to them. Also, I think back on how they (books and TV shows) put a positive spin on a particularly dastardly act, just because it was one of the good guys doing it. And, I am reminded of what you had mentioned in class: read something close to the true version and one'd find stuff that would put Game of Thrones to shame! If it was perfectly fine, at one time, to narrate and listen to such stories publicly, I wonder where we went wrong.<br /><br />Sincerely<br />Nishant.Nishanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04476670168055492486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-51455273403509529522016-10-31T17:53:38.418+05:302016-10-31T17:53:38.418+05:30Dear Nishant,
I have read Karve's book, and ...Dear Nishant, <br /><br />I have read Karve's book, and it does indeed provide much food for thought. It is interesting to say the least that the great epic still continues to inspire people to think so much and write so much, even in this day and age!<br /><br />Which makes me take note of the fact that you - and you alone - keep coming back to the subject, and to my post. Nothing makes me happier. Best wishes, and happy reading and thinking...Suvro Chatterjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-36940780990993543472016-10-30T22:02:28.334+05:302016-10-30T22:02:28.334+05:30Dear Sir,
I had to abandon the last version I tri...Dear Sir,<br /><br />I had to abandon the last version I tried to read (the ISKCON version). The inherent bias made it look too childish. I am, however, reading Iravati Karve's "Yuganta" and it looks very promising (I am halfway through). It is a dissection of each of the characters, the society at the time and even the incidents in the book itself (she claims that several incidents were later additions in order to, for instance, make certain people look better). Just as you mentioned in your post, she brings to light the failings of the characters, even the ones that are considered 'good'. I don't know if you would gain much from the book, since you probably have taken the epic apart by virtue of reading it on multiple occasions and reflecting on it. To readers like me, it provides food for thought.<br /><br />Sincerely<br />Nishant.Nishanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04476670168055492486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-81894150489061022422014-03-24T23:59:56.120+05:302014-03-24T23:59:56.120+05:30Dear Sir,
I have read only the abridged version o...Dear Sir,<br /><br />I have read only the abridged version of the Mahabharata by Upendrakishore Ray Chowdhury, your post and the ‘The Palace of Illusions’. However, I want to discuss few things in spite of my limited knowledge about the epic.<br /><br />-Such a wide variety of characters makes me wonder whether there is any trait of human nature that falls outside the purview of those described in this epic.<br />-Is there any change from the fact that the common man is virtually excluded from all important matters that have direct bearing upon them? Yes, there is democracy in many countries and we have fundamental rights; yet, isn’t it obvious that a handful of politicians and business men controls most of what is essential. <br />-No gift from the gods comes without a price, all boons must be exercised with caution and what seems benign might prove to be otherwise in the long run. Doesn't it resonate with any new discoveries or innovations in science? Aggressive urbanization has led to ecological imbalance, rampant use of antibiotics has given rise to drug resistant microbes and so on. <br />-You have mentioned towards the end of your post that Krishna put Arjun’s doubt to rest by showing his universal form and not by logic which shows that he himself was not convinced about the righteousness of his judgment. But is it also not true that faith can motivate people much more than bare logic and that is what Krishna tried to do.<br />-There is one thing that seems puzzling- Yudhisthir was always so adamant about keeping ‘Dharma’ and had such a rigid outlook and yet Krishna never tried to advise him or talk sense which he did with everyone else. I am curious as to what might be the reason behind it.<br /><br />I would like to read some other versions of the epic and perhaps the original some day when I can comprehend your post better. Nevertheless, thanks for writing on this in your blog. It is always a delight to read your writings because they are neither old nor new; they are here to stay and stand the test of time.<br /><br />With regards,<br />Saikat.Saikat Chakrabortyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15868010301131014776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-50676697561286753932012-09-13T08:20:10.464+05:302012-09-13T08:20:10.464+05:30Dear Sir,
I finally started reading a version of ...Dear Sir,<br /><br />I finally started reading a version of the epic I'd bought last December, when I was home. And I am glad that I will be done before I am thirty!<br /><br />I didn't realise it when I bought it, but the author (Krishna Dharma) is a member of ISKCON and I can already see that he's not too objective in his writings. The Kauravas are always envious and jealous and the Pandavas are always virtuous and powerful. But since I know how things will be described throughout the book, I'll be prepared to make my own judgement on everything that happens. It's good to just learn the story though I do hope I find a book that is more objective. Maybe one by P. Lal. I'd also like to read Mrityunjay.<br /><br />Sincerely<br />Nishant.Nishanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04476670168055492486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-26840597794934473052012-01-08T18:14:42.694+05:302012-01-08T18:14:42.694+05:30I am happy to see that this post about the Mahabha...I am happy to see that this post about the Mahabharata has made it to the top-ten list. I should be happier still if some more join the conversation here.<br /><br />Sayan, I read Chopra's book recently, and I see exactly what you mean.<br /><br />Rajarshi, I said in the post itself that most of our (even unconscious-) prejudices have been handed down by the epics, passed orally through the generations even among people who could not read.Suvro Chatterjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-23507717377659666242011-09-17T21:06:15.152+05:302011-09-17T21:06:15.152+05:30Glad that you told me about this book, Sayantika, ...Glad that you told me about this book, Sayantika, many thanks.<br /><br />One of the more recent spoofs on the Mahabharata is Shashi Tharoor's <i>The Great Indian Novel</i>. I won't comment on it here, but you should try it. <br /><br />It is heartening that some youngsters like you not only still read books but what I write about books, and then bother to comment on them. The 'educated' class of my own generation, alas, cannot be faulted on any of those scores... I cannot think of a single colleague of mine, teachers included, who can be called a real reader.Suvro Chatterjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-35421293984996019432011-09-17T19:51:37.635+05:302011-09-17T19:51:37.635+05:30Dear Sir,
I just finished Mrityunjaya: The Death C...Dear Sir,<br />I just finished Mrityunjaya: The Death Conqueror by Marathi author Shivaji Sawant (translated by Professor P. Lal and Nandini Nopany) which portrays the entire epic from the point of view of Karna. I had wanted to read the book ever since I read Tagore's Karna-Kunti Sambad. Though the book deviates from the canon in some places, it was a very good read with beautiful descriptions and in-depth characterisation and it has rekindled my interest in reading the Mahabharata as a whole. And as you said in Point 2, that how many authors have based their works on the epic, and yet much needs to be done, I feel that it is a treasure trove of stories that can capture the imagination and it's high time we realise this. <br /><br />Thanks and with regards,<br />Sayantika.sayantikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13501892242958304832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-19235753920324609162011-08-17T10:02:21.225+05:302011-08-17T10:02:21.225+05:30Dear Sir,
I would rate this post as one of the b...Dear Sir, <br /><br />I would rate this post as one of the best I have read on your blogsite. in my opinion, It is easily among the top 5 posts you have written. I just reread this post the second time. This post certainly gives me a sound basis to reason about the mahabharata.<br /><br />I read one english translation of the geeta and when I did not understand it, my father suggested that I read the interpretation by Acharya Vinobha bhave. It was intended to be for convicts in the jail he was staying in and is intended to be easier than many other versions of the geeta available . I would accept that I have yet not understood the message of the geeta, while books like ashtavakra geeta, ribhu geeta or even the bible make some sense to me, at least intellectually. The last point you mentioned in your blog post certainly gives me a little relief, as even arjuna could not comprehend the message of the geeta intellectually. Also after reading your post, I realize that it is probably not possible to read the geeta as an independent unit, but it is necessary to read it in the context of mahabharata. <br /><br /><br />Thanks for this post. It comes at a great time for me. <br /><br />Regards, <br />NavinNavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10481886024371608320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-40180469368256925642011-07-16T19:49:11.718+05:302011-07-16T19:49:11.718+05:30In my view-
1: Social hierarchy was prevalent amo...In my view-<br />1: Social hierarchy was prevalent among gods too. There were demigods, the gandharvas, the not so powerful gods, and the three main gods; and they also acted, many times, in perfectly perfidious ways. Is this not a slight aberration on the meaning of the word “GOD”? <br />The power of the brahma is supreme (sage Vrihaspati’ brother nearly cursed the god of fire to be reduced to ashes). The Brahmin is always right and supreme among all living mortals as Bhishma told Yudhisthira after the Great War and he should always be venerated. Utter trash, once again birth has been given preference to virtue. Hitler and co. did it , white people in America could not think that blacks can have the same range of emotions as they had, Romans did that to Christians, Christians behaved in that manner with others ; power always finds a way to rest on its head.<br />2: Essentially I consider all the stories to be parables. Sage Vsaya often at the end of some anecdotes made someone speak the moral of the story- as in the story of Asthavakra, Kagola says that the son may be more intelligent than his father and it does good for talented people to be humble before genius- but those stories (Yavakrida’s life story may be more relevant in these decadent times) still teach us a lot even in the contemporary time; echoes one of my beliefs that neither time nor distance greatly changes man’s philosophy.<br /> It may be noted that both Gita and The Sermon on the Mount speak of same cardinal sins and virtues. Every religion has three main components- mythology, rituals and ceremonies and philosophy and ethics. Those who are not spiritually crippled tend to be drawn towards philosophy. <br /> Incidentally M N Roy has examined the contradictions in Gita, quite explicitly, in his book on materialism. <br />3: As long as one is sufficiently powerful and (therefore!) revered, he has the entire license in the world to do his will- Santanu’s illicit escapades or Devyani’s marriage are ample proofs to substantiate what I said. <br />People have very odd sense of Dharma, not to add that a few had a rotten sense of right and wrong, and odder are the ways in which they interpret it. Yudhisthira’ choices at the gambling event (actually the poet is very clever to give two reasons as to why the son of Pandu started gambling: one - his own lust for the game and the other being that he could not decline a direct invitation so as to prevent anger and ill will) , Salya being driven against his nephews on the eve of the battle, Draupadi’s humiliation in the court by Kauravas , Kunti throwing her son in the river and the events in the actual battle might throw light on this contentious issue. <br /><br />4: Lord Krishna is manipulator and the be-all and the end-all, and a great one too, at least that is what he says when he begins to run out of argument. His words are self contradictory- after the fateful gambling event he tells all that he would have prevented the game from occurring and also goes on peace keeping missions, allegedly to stop the war at all costs but also promises Draupadi that she will have her revenge.<br />I cannot help reflecting that the best way to improve oneself , to evolve one’s spiritual self more lies in becoming sponge, soaking goodness wherever one finds it, the scrutiny of what is “good” being left entirely to the philosopher concerned-there is no particular greatness-guide available-, and “drilling one’s soul in the right principles so that when the time comes the person concerned may not be found to be lacking in them” and certainly not by treating any particular book or religion to be above all.Amit Paraghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520925589059873499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-48002452847340279942011-07-09T11:50:17.780+05:302011-07-09T11:50:17.780+05:30I really do think that this particular post should...I really do think that this particular post should have been more commented upon!<br /><br />Bizarre and most disturbing that educated Indians of today are so unconcerned about their socio-cultural roots...Suvro Chatterjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-50003721675962435392011-03-16T12:36:14.241+05:302011-03-16T12:36:14.241+05:30Do that, Pritam: you won't regret it.
Incide...Do that, Pritam: you won't regret it. <br /><br />Incidentally, among the few who have commented here, I happen to know that Nishant, Sayan and you were very good at science and math, going by examination scores. It is on the likes of you that I pin most of what little hope I have for India's future. You are live examples of my contention that in order to be good at science and get into IIT and stuff one doesn't deliberately have to make oneself a moron, morally/culturally speaking: it is a conscious choice (but alas, one that far too many have made in my lifetime, in front of my own eyes)...Suvro Chatterjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-79948710349166305052011-03-16T05:15:19.136+05:302011-03-16T05:15:19.136+05:30Dear Sir,
I always wanted to read the Mahabharat ...Dear Sir,<br /><br />I always wanted to read the Mahabharat in full one day but every time I would put it off for some other day , until now. Your post has reignited that desire and I have finally started reading it - or rather an English version of it, and I shall get back to this post when I finish it, though it may be some time before that happens.Pritam Mukherjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05337145961830301998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-64821088120616996372011-03-03T12:23:50.677+05:302011-03-03T12:23:50.677+05:30Sir, I have been reading Deepak Chopra's '...Sir, I have been reading Deepak Chopra's 'Buddha'. I have read more than a few books of this genre before but now I can see the entire spectacle being played out from a completely new perspective. Your blog post has added one more dimension to my thought process and I can feel it. <br /><br />The excessive fawning over wealth, luxury and power, the servile compliance of the brahmins to the kshatriya kings to win favours or to simply dodge the guillotine and the regard for women as objects of pure lust only.......and all this, while there still appears to exist less malevolent and more thoughtful and sensitive people with at least some of them exploring the fringes of reality and idealism. There is this scene in the book where Canki, the high preist, shedding all fears of the wrath of Suddhodana for once, tells the disconcerted young Siddhartha - "You are among the few who can understand. I have always sensed that, ever since you were a little child." The ones who can understand have always been few. Isn't that so, Sir?<br /><br /> This is what your posts do, Sir. They open dusty doors which had remained closed for a long time and the fresh gust of wind that is hence allowed in has a cleansing effect on the mind. <br /><br />Thank you for the post, Sir. I plan to read the Mahabharata sooner rather than later.<br />Sayan Datta.Sayan Dattahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975519770920793055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-18388947309212032242011-03-02T20:46:43.773+05:302011-03-02T20:46:43.773+05:30Dear Sir,
It was nice to read your thoughts.
Thi...Dear Sir,<br /><br />It was nice to read your thoughts. <br />This is not in context of Mahabharata but Hindu mythological narratives in general.<br /><br />The way our epics (and Hindu mythology, in general) have portrayed the clash between Aryans (Devas) & Non-aryans (Rakshashas & Asuras) has resulted in many deep seated prejudices in our culture & society. Going by what mainstream historians say about Aryan invasion, it may be safe to say that the indigenous people (whom we refer to as 'adivasis') have been portrayed as 'Asuras' from Ramayana to Samudra Manthan.<br />Don't you think that marginalization of indigenous people (and this includes romanticizing their idyllic lifestyles), our obsession with fair complexion etc., are all manifestations of the way these narratives have been handed down the generations?<br /><br />Just a thought.Rajarshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00949837409466343426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-28584574247612494792011-03-01T23:01:50.574+05:302011-03-01T23:01:50.574+05:30dear sir ,
the answers to all the questions asked...dear sir ,<br /> the answers to all the questions asked by the previous comment writer are present in "The divine message" of THE GITA !Debotoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612292375366632146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-4320686764563036062011-03-01T15:43:42.132+05:302011-03-01T15:43:42.132+05:30Dear Sir,
Though my knowledge of the Mahabharata ...Dear Sir,<br /><br />Though my knowledge of the Mahabharata is limited to the stories I heard from grandmother, dad and mom, the children's version by Upendrakishore Raychaudhuri, BR Chopra's serial that has been telecasted many times and later wikipedia, I agree with the points that you have noted here, especially the last one. Though Krishna has been portrayed as the best of all, he is more of a Machiavellian character who uses all means to ensure the Pandavas' win. And in a war that is said to be fought between good and evil, why do the 'divine' Krishna make the 'good' use such means, like using Shikhandi to defeat Bhisma, prompting Yudhisthir to lie so as to kill Dronacharya, asking Arjuna to slay Karna when he was trying to rescue his chariot wheel or telling Bhima to break the rules of mace duelling in order to kill Duryodhana. If the Pandavas had been so great warriors, they must have been able to win fairly. So why resort to such low means, since they make the 'virtuous' Pandavas at par with the 'cruel' Kauravas?<br />Thanks for the links. I am re-reading it once again. <br /><br />With regards,<br />Sayantika.sayantikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13501892242958304832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-23941240475949814992011-02-28T05:59:48.868+05:302011-02-28T05:59:48.868+05:30Dear Suvroda
I have never read such detailed prac...Dear Suvroda<br /><br />I have never read such detailed practical review of Mahabharata. Thanks for writing the review. <br /><br />I have read a few versions of the Mahabharata too (but not that many as you have) but upon reading your review I do feel the need to re-read Mahabharata. As you have noted, there is such a huge amount of good/bad/normal of the Indian (and possibly global) culture in Mahabharata. Whilst perhaps many have talked of the issues identified in numbers 1 to 4 of your note, few would mention about number 5 and number 10. In fact, in both Ramayana and Mahabharata cruelty forms a major part of the whole narration. Bhim’s killing of Dushyashan and subsequently Draupadi using Dushyashan's blood to tie her hair has always given me shivers. In fact, in some places Mahabharata is terribly gory. Dushyashan’s death, Jayadratha (and his father’s death), Adbhimanyu’s death, killing of Draupadi’s son and Duryadhan’s death to name a few. <br /><br />In fact, I am not aware if any other epic brings forth the darker side of human being in such great details as Mahabharata does. Surely Iliad and Odyssey does not. Mahabharata showed that in does not matter whether you are elite or the privileged, every human being can reach the depth of inhumanness if something as important as property (money) is at stake. In fact, things have hardly changed even now. <br /><br />While you have covered a lot in your note but could you please identify some of the most beautiful moments in Mahabharata? I mean who/which incident for example, influences you most. I have tried to find an answer to such a question but could not because I find Mahabharata at a larger scale such a reflection of modern day society. For me it is like a mirror. I find this current relevance of Mahabharata a miracle and sometimes wonder – have we really progressed, in our mind? So the book influences me as a whole.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />TanmoyTanmoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472125805572571597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-7410511272526984712011-02-26T18:29:43.515+05:302011-02-26T18:29:43.515+05:30yes ,there is that india but its size is shrinking...yes ,there is that india but its size is shrinking at an alarming rate !Debotoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612292375366632146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-43674357348980218782011-02-26T17:27:33.092+05:302011-02-26T17:27:33.092+05:30I should be glad to hear some reflections from peo...I should be glad to hear some reflections from people who have read the great work closely and thought deeply about it.<br /><br />Nishant, happy reading.<br /><br />Debotosh, there's a vast India beyond the type you have mentioned, and it is that India I am interested in hearing from. It would be a pity if it turned out that that India didn't have much use for the internet...Suvro Chatterjeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027202980259279420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-13846412717034220912011-02-25T21:44:52.151+05:302011-02-25T21:44:52.151+05:30Dear Suvro da,
By God - this is an alarmingly lon...Dear Suvro da,<br /><br />By God - this is an alarmingly long, lovely and terribly interesting (to say the least) essay/post and so it won't be possible to write a comment and raise questions or entertain a discussion without a mile long comment. The bits that I know of the Mahabharata has long perplexed me (even a short and fairly well-written book which I read some months ago made me wonder and scratch my head, which is why I asked you about some translations) and so I've loved reading this post and wish to re-visit it. <br /><br />To take just one point - I never could understand much of why Yudhisthir was chosen to be the one to go straight into heaven (all I remember is that he refused to part with the dog...which I thought was the best thing that <i>he</i> had ever done!).<br /><br />The "being Brahmin by birth" is yet another obsession which along with some others has always vaguely perplexed me. I remember a bit that you'd written in your chapter where you briefly touched upon it and that had made me wonder all the more. <br /><br />Not to write miles but I think you say it best when you say that every man must think for himself and then make the best choice.<br /><br />Krishna's character too had made me wonder but somewhat less somehow...and although 'inscrutable' - his part/role makes sense to me if one sort of suspends one's usual thinking cap....because I remember you said one line which had made my own faffing over Krishna's role in the Mahabharata disappear. And Meera's devotion for Krishna has always haunted me and made sense although I don't know how she. poor girl(!), managed...!<br /><br />Thank you for this wonderful read but I have too many questions...some other time...<br /><br />Take care and love and regards.<br />ShilpiShilpihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03106170029106184978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-39100790449240059302011-02-25T10:46:49.744+05:302011-02-25T10:46:49.744+05:30Ten to twelve years ago , every sunday of mine use...Ten to twelve years ago , every sunday of mine used to begin with the "mahabharata" , aired on DD-National from 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock ! because i did not have access to things like mobile phones and the internet ,the TV editions of these legendary epics used to be my bosom friends ! i thoroughly enjoyed "ramayana" ,which was taught in classes 5 and 6 ; but the situation is completely different now -most kids in their early teenage(my dud brother included) cannot pass a bengali test (that includes mahabharata or ramayana in the syllabi) without a so called "guide" .ironically, some of these idiots turn out to be one-pointers and toppers in ICSE !Debotoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612292375366632146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30819742.post-74320992411709792742011-02-25T10:34:12.689+05:302011-02-25T10:34:12.689+05:30Dear Sir,
Thanks for the post and the links at th...Dear Sir,<br /><br />Thanks for the post and the links at the end. I have been meaning to read this book for a long time now. But I haven't been able to find out about a good translation. My grandma has the whole of the Mahabharatha by-heart and I heard many bits and pieces of it as a child. Once in class you'd quoted someone comparing nuclear warhead with the 'Thousand times brighter than the sun' weapon mentioned in the epic. And ever since I have wanted to read a good translation of it, one that is free from religious bias (one that doesn't justify events by saying that the Kauravas deserved what they did etc.). A friend of mine told me that Bhyrappa's written a good translation but I don't know if one exists in English. But I've saved a copy of the pdf from one of the sites you mentioned. I hope I find a good hard-copy.<br /><br />Sincerely<br />Nishant.Nishant Kamathnoreply@blogger.com